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标题: [转帖]Einstein & Faith(推荐在陈坤禁声期间) [打印本页]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-11 21:05
标题: [转帖]Einstein & Faith(推荐在陈坤禁声期间)
爱因斯坦是我老公最崇拜的偶像.他的世界观是他尤其推崇的.我相信也是很多人推崇的,本人也是一个.
今年四月TIME上的一篇文章又再次讲述了爱因斯坦,和他的世界观.我在这里介绍给陈坤,和这里的朋友们.文章是英文的,我也在学习中,我会陆续把一些关键词和关键句翻译上来,也欢迎英文好的朋友们翻译.
我这不是小说连载,每天一篇,但是陈坤可以多看几变,嘻嘻...
Einstein & Faith
TIME/Thursday, Apr. 05, 2007 By <A>WALTER ISAACSON</A> 
He was slow in learning how to talk. "My parents were so worried," he later recalled, "that they consulted a doctor." Even after he had begun using words, sometime after the age of 2, he developed a quirk that prompted the family maid to dub him "der Depperte," the dopey one. Whenever he had something to say, he would try it out on himself, whispering it softly until it sounded good enough to pronounce aloud. "Every sentence he uttered," his worshipful younger sister recalled, "no matter how routine, he repeated to himself softly, moving his lips." It was all very worrying, she said. "He had such difficulty with language that those around him feared he would never learn."
His slow development was combined with a cheeky rebelliousness toward authority, which led one schoolmaster to send him packing and another to declare that he would never amount to much. These traits made Albert Einstein the patron saint of distracted schoolkids everywhere. But they also helped make him, or so he later surmised, the most creative scientific genius of modern times.
His cocky contempt for authority led him to question received wisdom in ways that well-trained acolytes in the academy never contemplated. And as for his slow verbal development, he thought that it allowed him to observe with wonder the everyday phenomena that others took for granted. Instead of puzzling over mysterious things, he puzzled over the commonplace. "When I ask myself how it happened that I in particular discovered the relativity theory, it seemed to lie in the following circumstance," Einstein once explained. "The ordinary adult never bothers his head about the problems of space and time. These are things he has thought of as a child. But I developed so slowly that I began to wonder about space and time only when I was already grown up. Consequently, I probed more deeply into the problem than an ordinary child would have."
It may seem logical, in retrospect, that a combination of awe and rebellion made Einstein exceptional as a scientist. But what is less well known is that those two traits also combined to shape his spiritual journey and determine the nature of his faith. The rebellion part comes in at the beginning of his life: he rejected at first his parents' secularism and later the concepts of religious ritual and of a personal God who intercedes in the daily workings of the world. But the awe part comes in his 50s when he settled into a deism based on what he called the "spirit manifest in the laws of the universe" and a sincere belief in a "God who reveals Himself in the harmony of all that exists."
Einstein was descended, on both parents' sides, from Jewish tradesmen and peddlers who had, for at least two centuries, made modest livings in the rural villages of Swabia in southwestern Germany. With each generation they had become increasingly assimilated into the German culture they loved--or so they thought. Although Jewish by cultural designation and kindred instinct, they had little interest in the religion itself.
In his later years, Einstein would tell an old joke about an agnostic uncle who was the only member of his family who went to synagogue. When asked why he did so, the uncle would respond, "Ah, but you never know." Einstein's parents, on the other hand, were "entirely irreligious." They did not keep kosher or attend synagogue, and his father Hermann referred to Jewish rituals as "ancient superstitions," according to a relative.
Consequently, when Albert turned 6 and had to go to school, his parents did not care that there was no Jewish one near their home. Instead he went to the large Catholic school in their neighborhood. As the only Jew among the 70 students in his class, he took the standard course in Catholic religion and ended up enjoying it immensely.
Despite his parents' secularism, or perhaps because of it, Einstein rather suddenly developed a passionate zeal for Judaism. "He was so fervent in his feelings that, on his own, he observed Jewish religious strictures in every detail," his sister recalled. He ate no pork, kept kosher and obeyed the strictures of the Sabbath. He even composed his own hymns, which he sang to himself as he walked home from school.
Einstein's greatest intellectual stimulation came from a poor student who dined with his family once a week. It was an old Jewish custom to take in a needy religious scholar to share the Sabbath meal; the Einsteins modified the tradition by hosting instead a medical student on Thursdays. His name was Max Talmud, and he began his weekly visits when he was 21 and Einstein was 10.
Talmud brought Einstein science books, including a popular illustrated series called People's Books on Natural Science, "a work which I read with breathless attention," said Einstein. The 21 volumes were written by Aaron Bernstein, who stressed the interrelations between biology and physics, and reported in great detail the experiments being done at the time, especially in Germany.
Talmud also helped Einstein explore the wonders of mathematics by giving him a textbook on geometry two years before he was scheduled to learn that subject in school. When Talmud arrived each Thursday, Einstein delighted in showing him the problems he had solved that week. Initially, Talmud was able to help him, but he was soon surpassed by his pupil. "After a short time, a few months, he had worked through the whole book," Talmud recalled. "Soon the flight of his mathematical genius was so high that I could no longer follow."
Einstein's exposure to science and math produced a sudden transformation at age 12, just as he would have been readying for a bar mitzvah. He suddenly gave up Judaism. That decision does not appear to have been drawn from Bernstein's books because the author made clear he saw no contradiction between science and religion. As he put it, "The religious inclination lies in the dim consciousness that dwells in humans that all nature, including the humans in it, is in no way an accidental game, but a work of lawfulness that there is a fundamental cause of all existence."
Einstein would later come close to these sentiments. But at the time, his leap away from faith was a radical one. "Through the reading of popular scientific books, I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of free thinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression."
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[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-11 23:37:23编辑过]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-11 21:06
Einstein did, however, retain from his childhood religious phase a profound faith in, and reverence for, the harmony and beauty of what he called the mind of God as it was expressed in the creation of the universe and its laws. Around the time he turned 50, he began to articulate more clearly--in various essays, interviews and letters--his deepening appreciation of his belief in God, although a rather impersonal version of one. One particular evening in 1929, the year he turned 50, captures Einstein's middle-age deistic faith. He and his wife were at a dinner party in Berlin when a guest expressed a belief in astrology. Einstein ridiculed the notion as pure superstition. Another guest stepped in and similarly disparaged religion. Belief in God, he insisted, was likewise a superstition.
At this point the host tried to silence him by invoking the fact that even Einstein harbored religious beliefs. "It isn't possible!" the skeptical guest said, turning to Einstein to ask if he was, in fact, religious. "Yes, you can call it that," Einstein replied calmly. "Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious."
Shortly after his 50th birthday, Einstein also gave a remarkable interview in which he was more revealing than he had ever been about his religious sensibility. It was with George Sylvester Viereck, who had been born in Germany, moved to America as a child and then spent his life writing gaudily erotic poetry, interviewing great men and expressing his complex love for his fatherland. Einstein assumed Viereck was Jewish. In fact, Viereck proudly traced his lineage to the family of the Kaiser, and he would later become a Nazi sympathizer who was jailed in America during World War II for being a German propagandist.
Viereck began by asking Einstein whether he considered himself a German or a Jew. "It's possible to be both," replied Einstein. "Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of mankind."
Should Jews try to assimilate? "We Jews have been too eager to sacrifice our idiosyncrasies in order to conform."
To what extent are you influenced by Christianity? "As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene."
You accept the historical existence of Jesus? "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."
Do you believe in God? "I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."
Is this a Jewish concept of God? "I am a determinist. I do not believe in free will. Jews believe in free will. They believe that man shapes his own life. I reject that doctrine. In that respect I am not a Jew."
Is this Spinoza's God? "I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but I admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things."
Do you believe in immortality? "No. And one life is enough for me."
Einstein tried to express these feelings clearly, both for himself and all of those who wanted a simple answer from him about his faith. So in the summer of 1930, amid his sailing and ruminations in Caputh, he composed a credo, "What I Believe," that he recorded for a human-rights group and later published. It concluded with an explanation of what he meant when he called himself religious: "The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man."
People found the piece evocative, and it was reprinted repeatedly in a variety of translations. But not surprisingly, it did not satisfy those who wanted a simple answer to the question of whether or not he believed in God. "The outcome of this doubt and befogged speculation about time and space is a cloak beneath which hides the ghastly apparition of atheism," Boston's Cardinal William Henry O'Connell said. This public blast from a Cardinal prompted the noted Orthodox Jewish leader in New York, Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein, to send a very direct telegram: "Do you believe in God? Stop. Answer paid. 50 words." Einstein used only about half his allotted number of words. It became the most famous version of an answer he gave often: "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
Some religious Jews reacted by pointing out that Spinoza had been excommunicated from Amsterdam's Jewish community for holding these beliefs, and that he had also been condemned by the Catholic Church. "Cardinal O'Connell would have done well had he not attacked the Einstein theory," said one Bronx rabbi. "Einstein would have done better had he not proclaimed his nonbelief in a God who is concerned with fates and actions of individuals. Both have handed down dicta outside their jurisdiction."
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[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-11 21:08:32编辑过]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-11 21:06
But throughout his life, Einstein was consistent in rejecting the charge that he was an atheist. "There are people who say there is no God," he told a friend. "But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views." And unlike Sigmund Freud or Bertrand Russell or George Bernard Shaw, Einstein never felt the urge to denigrate those who believed in God; instead, he tended to denigrate atheists. "What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos," he explained.
In fact, Einstein tended to be more critical of debunkers, who seemed to lack humility or a sense of awe, than of the faithful. "The fanatical atheists," he wrote in a letter, "are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who--in their grudge against traditional religion as the 'opium of the masses'-- cannot hear the music of the spheres."
Einstein later explained his view of the relationship between science and religion at a conference at the Union Theological Seminary in New York. The realm of science, he said, was to ascertain what was the case, but not evaluate human thoughts and actions about what should be the case. Religion had the reverse mandate. Yet the endeavors worked together at times. "Science can be created only by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding," he said. "This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion." The talk got front-page news coverage, and his pithy conclusion became famous. "The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
But there was one religious concept, Einstein went on to say, that science could not accept: a deity who could meddle at whim in the events of his creation. "The main source of the present-day conflicts between the spheres of religion and of science lies in this concept of a personal God," he argued. Scientists aim to uncover the immutable laws that govern reality, and in doing so they must reject the notion that divine will, or for that matter human will, plays a role that would violate this cosmic causality.
His belief in causal determinism was incompatible with the concept of human free will. Jewish as well as Christian theologians have generally believed that people are responsible for their actions. They are even free to choose, as happens in the Bible, to disobey God's commandments, despite the fact that this seems to conflict with a belief that God is all knowing and all powerful.
Einstein, on the other hand, believed--as did Spinoza--that a person's actions were just as determined as that of a billiard ball, planet or star. "Human beings in their thinking, feeling and acting are not free but are as causally bound as the stars in their motions," Einstein declared in a statement to a Spinoza Society in 1932. It was a concept he drew also from his reading of Schopenhauer. "Everybody acts not only under external compulsion but also in accordance with inner necessity," he wrote in his famous credo. "Schopenhauer's saying, 'A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills,' has been a real inspiration to me since my youth; it has been a continual consolation in the face of life's hardships, my own and others', and an unfailing wellspring of tolerance."
This determinism appalled some friends such as Max Born, who thought it completely undermined the foundations of human morality. "I cannot understand how you can combine an entirely mechanistic universe with the freedom of the ethical individual," he wrote Einstein. "To me a deterministic world is quite abhorrent. Maybe you are right, and the world is that way, as you say. But at the moment it does not really look like it in physics--and even less so in the rest of the world."
For Born, quantum uncertainty provided an escape from this dilemma. Like some philosophers of the time, he latched onto the indeterminacy that was inherent in quantum mechanics to resolve "the discrepancy between ethical freedom and strict natural laws."
Born explained the issue to his wife Hedwig, who was always eager to debate Einstein. She told Einstein that, like him, she was "unable to believe in a 'dice-playing' God." In other words, unlike her husband, she rejected quantum mechanics' view that the universe was based on uncertainties and probabilities. But, she added, "nor am I able to imagine that you believe--as Max has told me--that your 'complete rule of law' means that everything is predetermined, for example whether I am going to have my child inoculated." It would mean, she pointed out, the end of all moral behavior.
But Einstein's answer was to look upon free will as something that was useful, indeed necessary, for a civilized society, because it caused people to take responsibility for their own actions. "I am compelled to act as if free will existed," he explained, "because if I wish to live in a civilized society I must act responsibly." He could even hold people responsible for their good or evil, since that was both a pragmatic and sensible approach to life, while still believing intellectually that everyone's actions were predetermined. "I know that philosophically a murderer is not responsible for his crime," he said, "but I prefer not to take tea with him."
The foundation of morality, he believed, was rising above the "merely personal" to live in a way that benefited humanity. He dedicated himself to the cause of world peace and, after encouraging the U.S. to build the atom bomb to defeat Hitler, worked diligently to find ways to control such weapons. He raised money to help fellow refugees, spoke out for racial justice and publicly stood up for those who were victims of McCarthyism. And he tried to live with a humor, humility, simplicity and geniality even as he became one of the most famous faces on the planet.
For some people, miracles serve as evidence of God's existence. For Einstein it was the absence of miracles that reflected divine providence. The fact that the world was comprehensible, that it followed laws, was worthy of awe.
From Einstein by Walter Isaacson. © 2007 by Walter Isaacson. To be published by Simon & Schuster, Inc.
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[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-11 21:11:52编辑过]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-11 21:37
爱因斯坦不是一个无神论者,但是又有别于所有的宗教.
文章最后一段的大意是: 对于有些人,奇迹是因为有上帝的存在.对于爱因斯坦,没有奇迹是因为有上帝的存在.事实上,世界是可知的,是有序的,是要敬畏的.

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-12 6:33:15编辑过]

作者: bbb001 时间: 2007-5-11 21:48
[em06][em06][em06]

作者: lyann 时间: 2007-5-11 22:11
"对于有些人,奇迹是因为有上帝的存在.对于爱因斯坦,没有奇迹是因为有上帝的存在.事实上,世界是可知的,是有序的,是要遵守的."
谢谢fang!太喜欢这句话了,真理!
"对于有些人,奇迹是因为有上帝的存在",多数人是这样的,因为上帝是万能的,人无法想象到的.
"对于爱因斯坦,没有奇迹是因为有上帝的存在.事实上,世界是可知的,是有序的,是要遵守的."科学家事实上是在发现(DISCOVERY)世界,而这些规则早在它被造的时候就定好了.

作者: radiowoman 时间: 2007-5-11 22:32
<DIV class=quote>以下是引用fangfang在2007-5-11 21:06:35的发言： 
The foundation of morality, he believed, was rising above the "merely personal" to live in a way that benefited humanity. </DIV>
----道德的基础，他相信，是超越“个人主义”, 造福人类的(一种精神)。<o:p></o:p>
I like this one !

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-11 23:15
<DIV class=quote>以下是引用radiowoman在2007-5-11 22:32:39的发言： 
----道德的基础，他相信，是超越“个人主义”, 造福人类的(一种精神)。<o:p></o:p>
I like this one ! </DIV>
嘻嘻,我也喜欢这句.会长大人,你这么一引用,好象这话是我说的.[em01]
这一段接下来的话,是说明了,在这个观点下,爱因斯坦是如何做的.

作者: lyann 时间: 2007-5-12 00:39
 
Do you believe in God? "I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."
你相信上帝吗?
“我不是无神论者,(也)认为自己不是泛神论者.对于我们有限的智力来说,所牵涉到的问题是太无边无际了.我们就如一个小孩子进入了一间博大的图书馆,这里藏满了用多种语言编写的书.孩子知道一定是有某个人写了这些书,但不知是怎样写出来的,也看不懂它们.孩子直觉地感到这些书的排列之间有一种神秘联系.,但不知道它到底是什么.
对我来说,最聪明的人上帝面前也不过如此.我们看到宇宙奇迹般地被安排好了,遵循着某种规律(运行),但是对这种规律知之甚少."
如此一位智慧之人却能这样的谦卑,让人敬佩!
喜欢这个小孩进图书馆的比喻!I'm not really sure about "dimly",please advise,thanks!

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-12 12:17:58编辑过]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-12 06:41
太谢谢Lyann了。我们想到一起去了。我理解的dimly，也是“模糊”的意思。还有上面的一段话改了最后那个词，我现在想这样翻比较好，真的是上午和下午的思维都不一样呐！[em01]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-12 07:52
。。。。。
Is this a Jewish concept of God? "I am a determinist. I do not believe in free will. Jews believe in free will. They believe that man shapes his own life. I reject that doctrine. In that respect I am not a Jew."
Is this Spinoza's God? "I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but I admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things."
Do you believe in immortality? "No. And one life is enough for me."
------------------------------------------------------
。。。。。
问：（你信奉的）可以定义是犹太教的上帝吗？
爱因斯坦：“我是一个宿命论者。（记得陈坤也说过他是个宿命论者，这也是我转这篇文章的原因之一。）我不相信自主力（？）。犹太人相信自主力，他们相信人可以把握自身的命运。我不接受这种教义，所以从这个意义上讲，我不是一个犹太教徒。”
问：那是思宾诺沙（荷兰哲学家，思想家）的上帝吗？
爱因斯坦：“我很喜欢思宾诺沙的泛神论，但是我更加欣赏的是他对现代思潮（？）的贡献，他是第一位能把精神和肉体当作一体探讨的哲学家，而不是把它们分成两个不同的个体。”
问：你相信永生吗？
爱因斯坦：“不相信，而且对我来说，一次生命已经足已了。”
（God,I'm really enjoyed translating this.)

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-12 8:53:45编辑过]

作者: lyann 时间: 2007-5-12 12:12
<DIV class=quote>以下是引用fangfang在2007-5-12 6:41:25的发言： 
太谢谢Lyann了。我们想到一起去了。我理解的dimly，也是“模糊”的意思。还有上面的一段话改了最后那个词，我现在想这样翻比较好，真的是上午和下午的思维都不一样呐！[em01]</DIV>
fang,下午问了儿子,他说这里有barely的意思,会长也说翻的太直白了,在她的帮助下,又改了一次,但愿通顺一些,也没篡改原文哈.

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-13 02:18
翻译这东西的确很难，我的烂中文，想来想去也找不到恰当的词，但是我觉得挺好玩的。。。（先自娱自乐啦）
能看原文的，还是看原文比较好，我的蹩脚的翻译仅作参考哈。
。。。"The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle （摇篮）of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man."
爱因斯坦为了让自己更明确，也回答那些想得到简单答案的人（你到底是不是信教？），讲了上面这段话：
“我们最美的情感是神秘感。这种神秘感，是所有真艺术和真科学的摇篮。缺少这种情感的人，就不再会好奇，不会敬畏，象是死亡，象是蜡烛燃尽。要感觉这种神秘，就好像在我们感受的所有事情的背后，有一种我们的思想遥不可及的东西，它可以美妙的，无上的，但又不直接的触及我们：从这个意义上，也只在这个意义上，我是一个信教的人。”
人们还是不满意，要爱因斯坦用50个字回答这个问题。爱因斯坦用了25个字来回答，也成为了最伟大的回答：
"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
“我相信思宾诺沙的上帝--呈现它自身在有规律的，和谐的万事万物中，而不信那个上帝--关注他自身在人类的命运和行为中。”

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-13 3:01:12编辑过]

作者: yabi 时间: 2007-5-13 07:05
谢谢几位姐姐，很好的文章，要仔细琢磨琢磨~~~

作者: ￡非你不可 时间: 2007-5-13 11:24
一串外文
谁看的懂？
[em01]

作者: 芦苇 时间: 2007-5-13 22:35
我们最美的情感是神秘感。这种神秘感，是所有真艺术和真科学的摇篮。缺少这种情感的人，就不再会好奇，不会敬畏，象是死亡，象是蜡烛燃尽。要感觉这种神秘，就好像在我们感受的所有事情的背后，有一种我们的思想遥不可及的东西，它可以美妙的，无上的，但又不直接的触及我们：从这个意义上，也只在这个意义上，我是一个信教的人。
————————————————————————————————
陈坤也很有神秘感，我信陈坤教 ^_^

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-13 23:47
<DIV class=quote>以下是引用

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-13 23:48
<DIV class=quote>以下是引用芦苇在2007-5-13 22:35:59的发言： 
我们最美的情感是神秘感。这种神秘感，是所有真艺术和真科学的摇篮。缺少这种情感的人，就不再会好奇，不会敬畏，象是死亡，象是蜡烛燃尽。要感觉这种神秘，就好像在我们感受的所有事情的背后，有一种我们的思想遥不可及的东西，它可以美妙的，无上的，但又不直接的触及我们：从这个意义上，也只在这个意义上，我是一个信教的人。
————————————————————————————————
陈坤也很有神秘感，我信陈坤教 ^_^</DIV>
哈哈，MM的悟性很高啊！[em01][em17]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-13 23:50
<DIV class=quote>以下是引用yabi在2007-5-13 7:05:33的发言： 
谢谢几位姐姐，很好的文章，要仔细琢磨琢磨~~~</DIV>
多谢支持，其实我也还在琢磨中~~~嘻嘻。

作者: 修罗飞天 时间: 2007-5-13 23:59
 [em06]确实要琢磨琢磨!

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-14 02:27
Einstein, on the other hand, believed--as did Spinoza--that a person's actions were just as determined as that of a billiard ball, planet or star. "Human beings in their thinking, feeling and acting are not free but are as causally bound as the stars in their motions," Einstein declared in a statement to a Spinoza Society in 1932. It was a concept he drew also from his reading of Schopenhauer. "Everybody acts not only under external compulsion but also in accordance with inner necessity," he wrote in his famous credo. "Schopenhauer's saying, 'A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills,' has been a real inspiration to me since my youth; it has been a continual consolation in the face of life's hardships, my own and others', and an unfailing wellspring of tolerance."
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爱因斯坦,与其相反（指上文所说犹太教和基督教人决定了自己的命运的教义），相信---思宾诺沙的---人的行为，就象桌球的运动，行星和恒星的运动，是预定了的。1932年，爱因斯坦在思宾诺沙协会指出，“人类的思维，情感和行为不是自由的，就象星球有自己固定的轨迹一样，是严格规定了的。”在他读叔本华（德国哲学家）著作的笔记里，爱因斯坦写道，“每个人的行为不仅是因为外界的压力，也是因为自身的需要。”还写道，也是著名的，“叔本华说‘一个人能做他想做的，却不能想他所想的。’这句话从我年轻时起，就对我有了真正的影响；以后在我自己和我周围的人生命艰难的时候，这句话一直成为了一个安慰，也是一个能让我忍耐和适应的不尽源泉。”
----这里讲述了爱因斯坦宿命论的思想。最后的一句真的让我很感动。
----下面的两三段里有他的朋友和老婆对他的质疑，大家自己看吧。我是相信爱因斯坦的！嘻嘻。。。

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-14 21:33:35编辑过]

作者: lyann 时间: 2007-5-15 00:01
It may seem logical, in retrospect, that a combination of awe and rebellion made Einstein exceptional as a scientist. But what is less well known is that those two traits also combined to shape his spiritual journey and determine the nature of his faith. The rebellion part comes in at the beginning of his life: he rejected at first his parents' secularism and later the concepts of religious ritual and of a personal God who intercedes in the daily workings of the world. But the awe part comes in his 50s when he settled into a deism based on what he called the "spirit manifest in the laws of the universe" and a sincere belief in a "God who reveals Himself in the harmony of all that exists."
回顾(历史),敬畏与反叛(的品质)似乎很合逻辑地造就了爱因斯坦这位卓越的科学家,但鲜为人知的是,这也形成了他的精神境界和个人信仰.反叛(精神)表现在他人生的最初阶段:首先他拒绝接受父母的现实主义,然后是有关宗教仪式的观念,以及上帝在调解我们的日常生活之说.在五十多岁时,基于被其称为”宇宙定律的精神宣言”(?), 他成为自然神论者, 一位忠实的信徒, 他笃信“所有存在的物质间的协调一致(才)是上帝的真实展现.”敬畏之心油然而生.

fang, thanks again! I like this article,can't stop reading it!Learned a lot,spiritually,and both English and Chinese.
We'll live in a better life if we obey God because he is the creator and knows what we really need and what can make us happy.(my opinion)

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-15 4:17:10编辑过]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-15 02:33
But Einstein's answer was to look upon free will as something that was useful, indeed necessary, for a civilized society, because it caused people to take responsibility for their own actions. "I am compelled to act as if free will existed," he explained, "because if I wish to live in a civilized society I must act responsibly." He could even hold people responsible for their good or evil, since that was both a pragmatic and sensible approach to life, while still believing intellectually that everyone's actions were predetermined. "I know that philosophically a murderer is not responsible for his crime," he said, "but I prefer not to take tea with him."
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但是,爱因斯坦同样也认为人的志愿是有价值的,是很必要的.因为在文明社会里,人们要为他们自己的行为负责任."如果我有志愿,那也是被强迫的."他解释道,"因为我想生活在一个文明的社会,所以我必须尽我的责任."虽然,从智慧上他仍然相信人的行为是被预定的,但他也认为,人要对他们好的和坏的行为负责任,因为,这实际的,敏感的触及到人的生活.他说,"我知道,从哲学的角度,杀人犯对他的罪行是不有负责任的.但是我宁愿不要和他一起喝茶."

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-16 1:48:47编辑过]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-15 02:39
Thank GOD!
Lyann, 我闷头翻了大半天,发上来一看,...还好我们翻的不是同一段.
要不然岂不是两个球撞在一起了.[em01]

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-15 2:44:52编辑过]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-15 02:48
Lyann, 我喜欢你翻的这一段,看中文和英文的感觉还真是不一样.

作者: lyann 时间: 2007-5-15 04:32
<DIV class=quote>以下是引用fangfang在2007-5-15 2:48:12的发言： 
Lyann, 我喜欢你翻的这一段,看中文和英文的感觉还真是不一样.</DIV>

fang,谢谢鼓励!是我浅显的理解,但愿没篡改原文.
文中的free will,不知是不是有"自由意识"的意思?上帝给予人类的这种特殊恩赐,让我们有别于动物,有了选择权,懂得去欣赏,体会和享受生活.

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-15 05:02
Lyann,我的理解,"free will"是"自由的意愿",或者"无限的意愿".就象我们以前所说的"人定胜天","人有多大胆,地有多大产."之类的话,就是这种"free will"的极端的例子. 我觉得,也有你说的意思. 我想是有两层含意,一是人可以想得到什么就得到什么,二是人也要为他们行为的后果负责.
His belief in causal(原因) determinism (决定论)was incompatible (不调和的)with the concept of human free will. Jewish as well as Christian theologians have generally believed that people are responsible for their actions. They are even free to choose, as happens in the Bible, to disobey God's commandments, despite the fact that this seems to conflict with a belief that God is all knowing and all powerful.
爱因斯坦相信的原因决定论(?)是与人的自由意愿的概念不一致的. 犹太教和基督教的理论,一般是相信的人可以支配他们的行为.他们甚至可以自由选择,就象圣经里写的,可以违背上帝的意愿,(注: 我想在这里是指,人违背上帝的意愿吃了树上的(忘了叫什么树)果子.从此人就成了有罪的?(犹太教的一点都没看过,基督教知道一点点,)),仅管事实上这好象是不符合上帝是全知全能的信念.
-----不知道理解的对不对?
-----同样是因果,一个是被动,一个是主动?

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-16 1:53:00编辑过]

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-16 02:51
我的心得体会:
1) 坦然的做自己,做自己想做的事情,不要刻意的去改变什么,好的总归是好的,坏的总归是坏的.
2) 我们要修正自己,但这仅仅是为了道德水准的提高.
3) 西方社会注重制度和法律,我觉得就是受到这种哲学理论的主导.

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-16 04:53
斯宾诺莎(1632-1677)和叔本华(1788-1860)是两位对爱因斯坦影响最大的哲学家
引一段对斯宾诺莎哲学思想的介绍,供大家参考:
斯宾诺莎的哲学思想
<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%93%B2%E5%AD%A6" target="_blank" >哲学</A>上，斯宾诺莎是一名<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%80%E5%85%83%E8%AE%BA" target="_blank" >一元论</A>者或<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B3%9B%E7%A5%9E%E8%AE%BA" target="_blank" >泛神论</A>者。他认为宇宙间只有一种实体，即作为整体的宇宙本身，而上帝和宇宙就是一回事。他的这个结论是基于一组定义和公理，通过逻辑推理得来的。斯宾诺莎的上帝不仅仅包括了物质世界，还包括了精神世界。他认为人的智慧是上帝智慧的组成部分。斯宾诺莎还认为上帝是每件事的“内在因”，上帝通过自然法则来主宰世界，所以物质世界中发生的每一件事都有其必然性；世界上只有上帝是拥有完全自由的，而人虽可以试图去除外在的束缚，却永远无法获得自由意志。如果我们能够将事情看作是必然的，那么我们就愈容易与上帝合为一体。因此，斯宾诺莎提出我们应该“在永恒的相下”（sub specie aeternitatis）看事情。
<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B7%B4%E9%AD%AF%E8%B5%AB%C2%B7%E6%96%AF%E8%B3%93%E8%AB%BE%E8%8E%8E" target="_blank" >http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B7%B4%E9%AD%AF%E8%B5%AB%C2%B7%E6%96%AF%E8%B3%93%E8%AB%BE%E8%8E%8E</A>
"人的智慧是上帝智慧的组成部分。"---特别喜欢这句话.
"如果我们能够将事情看作是必然的，那么我们就愈容易与上帝合为一体。"---还喜欢这句.
P.S. 还有一句名言忍不住要发上来,
对于死亡的问题，斯宾诺莎的名言是：“自由人最少想到死，他的智慧不是关于死的默念，而是对于生的沉思。”他的一生也彻底地实践了这句格言，对死亡一直十分平静面对。

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-16 21:59:51编辑过]

作者: lyann 时间: 2007-5-16 04:55
谢谢fang的解释!对这位大科学家的信仰很感兴趣,有时间再来学习.

作者: fangfang 时间: 2007-5-16 22:21
与斯宾诺莎不同,叔本华的人品是受人垢病的.但是他的理论到可能是真的:
伦理学
叔本华认为<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E4%BC%A6%E7%90%86%E5%AD%A6&variant=zh-cn" target="_blank" >伦理学</A>是很简单的一门学科，他从人类行为的动机出发探讨人类<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E9%81%93%E5%BE%B7&variant=zh-cn" target="_blank" >道德</A>的基础。叔本华认为人类行为的动机可以分成三种：希望自己快乐，希望他人痛苦，希望别人快乐。他将这三种动机分别概括为利己、恶毒、同情，其中利己和恶毒是非道德的推动力，只有基于同情是真正的道德行为。

<H3>利己</H3>
叔本华认为很多表面上的道德行为都是出于利己的目的而做出的，其中最重要的两个原因是个人<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%90%8D%E8%AA%89&action=edit" target="_blank" >名誉</A>和<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%B3%95%E5%BE%8B&variant=zh-cn" target="_blank" >法律</A>规范。出于个人名誉的道德行为其目的隐含着满足自己的意欲，希望自己获得他人的敬意从而产生心理上的满足。而迫于法律规范的道德行为则是为了规避法律惩罚，免于自己受到损失而做出的。这些行为在叔本华看来是没有真正道德意义的。出于这种目的的极端形式是：一切都是我的，别人什么都没有。基于这个原因的庸俗情况就是我们常看到的，那些为了生理需求上的诸如食欲、性欲以及舒适等等要求而发展出来的极端不道德行为。

<H3>恶毒</H3>
第二种非道德的动机是恶毒，它的目的是希望别人痛苦。叔本华认为恶毒是无处不在的，但一般它的程度都是轻微的，普遍表现为人与人之间的漠视和反感。人类用礼貌和聪明来掩饰这一动机，所以背后的恶意中伤和谣言诽谤便相当常见。恶毒的两大根源是嫉妒和幸灾乐祸，嫉妒是于生具来无法摆脱的卑劣人性，因为嫉妒的东西本应是受到敬佩和感动的。而幸灾乐祸可以说是恶毒的普遍现身，叔本华认为没有比幸灾乐祸在道德上更一无是处的了。出于恶毒的极端形式是：尽其所能地伤害别人，一切残忍的行为都只是将幸灾乐祸付诸实施的行径。
叔本华认为一切的非道德行为都能由以上两种动机中推导出来。

<H3>同情</H3>
叔本华认为真正的道德是非常稀有的，真正道德的人也是万中无一，他说我们会对那些道德行为产生敬意正说明了那些道德行为与众不同，是不可思议的。他引用<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%8D%A2%E6%A2%AD&variant=zh-cn" target="_blank" >卢梭</A>的话说，人们不会对比自己幸福的人产生同感，而只会对比我们不幸的人感同身受。即我们的直接同感只局限于对他人的痛苦，而不是安逸。因此，同情实质上是对他人痛苦的感同身受，也就是将他人与自己视为一体。从同情出发，直到高尚无私，慷慨大量，一切对于美德的赞美词汇都出于此而没有其它。
叔本华将从同情出发的伦理学基本原则定为：不伤害别人，尽量帮助每一个人，其对应的两大基本美德是<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%85%AC%E6%AD%A3&variant=zh-cn" target="_blank" >公正</A>和<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E4%BB%81%E7%88%B1&action=edit" target="_blank" >仁爱</A>。公正表现了同情的否定性质，即不能忍受他人的痛苦，迫使自己至少不去伤害他人。而仁爱则表现为同情心的肯定作用，它比公正更高一个级别，即看见他人痛苦，就象自己受苦，从而使自己去帮助每一个人。叔本华认为这两者都是极端罕见的，但又是确实存在的，即便再没有道德的人也无法否认公正和仁爱这两者。

<H3>人的性格和同情的起源</H3>
由于一切行为的动机都出于利己、恶毒、同情这三者，所以一个人的道德程度就可以看成这三者在他的性格中的比例。同情在这三者中所占比例越大，则一个人的道德程度越高。叔本华认为这三者的比例在一个人的性格中无法改变，他对这个观点的论证是从人类的普遍态度出发的。对于一个过去犯过错的坏人，人们就对他永远不抱有信任的态度；一个被认为是好人的人，无论做了什么错事总能受到人们信任；攻击对方时，我们都攻击他人的性格而不是事件本身，因为性格被认为是无法改变的东西，例如常说的：江山易改，本性难移。叔本华认为一切事物都是先有本质，再有本质的发挥，所以一切行为都是出自我们个人的自由被他认为是绝对不可能的事情。
叔本华认为对于道德基础，也就是同情心的起源论证是最困难的问题。由于同情心的本质是对他人痛苦的感同身受，也就是认为人，我其实本无差异。在利己和痛苦主义者看来，他人和自我之间存在一种绝对的差别，这是他们和富有同情心的人根本上的不同。所以道德的起源也就是看透他人和自我间的无差异性，这即是同情的基石，也是道德的基石。展开而去，就是认识到万物间的无差异性，这里叔本华对道德起源的论证存有一种神秘主义倾向（万物一体），和中国的<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%BA%84%E5%AD%90&variant=zh-cn" target="_blank" >庄子</A>的齐物思想本质上有共同之处。
叔本华的伦理学大致可以用这样的逻辑来描绘：万物间无差异-->人、我间无差异-->对他人痛苦的感同身受-->同情心的油然而生-->公正和仁爱思想的建立-->道德的建立
<a href="http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8F%94%E6%9C%AC%E5%8D%8E#.E4.BC.A0.E8.AE.B0" target="_blank" >http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8F%94%E6%9C%AC%E5%8D%8E#.E4.BC.A0.E8.AE.B0</A>
莫泊桑称他(叔本华)为“人类历史上最伟大的梦想破坏者”

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-16 23:52:12编辑过]

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